Enough Is Enough

Let's tell the truth.

Jews should be grateful that the Holocaust occurred, otherwise, many of them would not have come to America nor would they have created Israel. Not only that, but because of natural selection, only the stupid Jews were killed in the Holocaust because the smart ones left before they were sent to concentration camps!

Was that over the top?

Hagee got in trouble for saying that Jewish people should be grateful for the Holocaust.

Compare that to what happened when Pat Buchanan spewed forth:

First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.

There was outrage, but only from Blacks, well some Blacks.

Today as I was listening to The Larry Young Morning Show on WOLB, he mentioned that he was part of a panel discussion on race and talk media. Rev. Mushmouth Jesse Lee Peterson said Blacks should be grateful that we were brought over as slaves and that the ride over was rough but no rougher than a crowed airline flight. Larry Young played an audio clip to prove the statement made.

Enough is enough. The next time some fool says something like this, I'm firing back rhetorically with the Hagee rhetorical nuke!

Comments

[Duane]

I do believe there are a few flaws comparing the holocaust with slavery.

Jews were well-established in European culture owning their own homes, business, schools, etc. In short, it was the Germans who stepped in and took over their economy and livelihood--uninvited.

For Africans, while we did have a long history of building kingdoms, schools, our own economy, etc., etc., weaker tribes were sold to Europeans who brought us into slavery. The truth here is that you, me and MOST other Blacks in this country (not 1st generation Africans) were on the lower end of that pecking order. We would have been screwed either way. Given the increased trade with Europeans which ultimately led to colonization, disease, famine, corrupt governments (who eventually took the place of European taskmasters) and seemingly never-ending tribal wars that often resulted in the genocide of MEN, I doubt that many of us would have survived (sorry for the long sentence :( )

Now although the words "And Lord, we just thank you for slavery--God is good!" isn't something you will hear coming from our lips in our household when we have family prayer, I firmly believe that looking at both options, slavery--as ugly, wrong, evil as it was--was in fact the lessor of the two injustices (the 'other' injustice as described in the previous paragraph). But of course, saying that in any open forum places you at risk for being looked at as a 'self-hating Black individual' because most folks find it easy to assume that 'Thanking God for slavery' or anything bad in your life means that in some sick way you get some pleasure out of the experience. That could not be any further from the truth!

The thing that disturbed me about Wright's comments was that not only was much of what he said historically inaccurate, but it was being defended and passed as truth when put into a 'proper context'. Even numbers of Obama supporters and his surrogates I came across online had to admit that Wright was off base. But as expected, many of them abandoned the "change" rhetoric and jumped back into politics as usual by trying to one-up Wright's comments with that of preachers like Hagee (who b.t.w. since apologized,-- unlike Wright) instead of FULLY calling out Wright on his inaccurate recollection of history and leaving it at that.

Lastly, the latter part of Buchanan's statement...

...reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.

...is true as it pertains to post-colonized Africa. The collective buying power of African-Americans in 2007 was roughly $845 billion which when you compare that figure to the GDP of most nations, African-Americans as a whole would rank as the 10th largest country in the world. In 2006, South Africa had the highest GDP in Africa coming in at $606 billion (mind you, even to this day that country's economy is reliant on Whites).

Now you can play the "whose got the biggest 'nuke'" game all you want, but in the end it boils down to plain 'ol pop negation.

[MIB]

The Atlantic slave trade -- a 300+ year Western enterprise in which an estimated 16-20 million Africans' died (during capture, detention, or transportation), and another 11-12 million Africans dispossed of their property, freedom and identities -- "... was in fact the lessor..." of two atrocities when compared to the Holocaust?

I've read some outstandingly stupid opinions of yours, Duane, but your latest bomb has to set some type of Olympian record for ignorance. Its moral equivalence and revisionism is so totally stupefying, it makes Pat Buchanan's apologia for White supremacy and American imperialism seem nearly sensible by comparison.

[Duane]

The Atlantic slave trade -- a 300+ year Western enterprise in which an estimated 16-20 million Africans' died (during capture, detention, or transportation), and another 11-12 million Africans dispossed of their property, freedom and identities -- "...

Speaking of "revisionism", make sure you include the fact that A) slavery existed in Africa before the arrival of Europeans and B)Africans were willing participants in the selling of their own to Europeans.
...
...or does that not fit in your à la Carte handle on history?

of two atrocities when compared to the Holocaust?

Here is where your keyboard was faster than your mouth. The comparison I made was between future African-Americans who could have stayed in Africa and endured what I described vs. slavery. The comparison of slavery to the holocaust is yours.

it makes Pat Buchanan's apologia for White supremacy and American imperialism seem nearly sensible by comparison

All this coming from a man who DAILY benefits from so-called "White supremacy and American imperialism" by willingly chosing to make Amerikkka his home.

[DarkStar]

Duane, I don't have time to make a more detailed response and really shouldn't be doing this now because of time, BUT, I'll make a quick comment.

I don't like to play the "what wouldda happened" game because I don't like that mindset. I deal with what's before me and move on. However, I have to play along to make a point.

Given the increased trade with Europeans which ultimately led to colonization, disease, famine, corrupt governments (who eventually took the place of European taskmasters) and seemingly never-ending tribal wars that often resulted in the genocide of MEN, I doubt that many of us would have survived

We really don't know what would have happened so all people can do is speculate. The problem with the speculation is that's it's based on things that happened. But we don't know if someone would have been married to grow up to do something great in certain African regions/countries/societies. We don't know if some Europeans would not have been born or their personal history affected because something happened or didn't happen.

It's like the Star Trek episode when Piccard and company first came across The Borg and Q showed Piccard what could happen in the future and what may not have happened in the past if people meddled with the time-space continuum.

Gotta jet...

[Duane]

But we DO know that colonization did exist along with all the other things that I mentioned. We also know that slavery in of itself was an institution that had been around long time BEFORE the arrival of Europeans even to this day in Africa . And we do know there was CLEARLY very little regard for the preservation of history, welfare and safety by the Africans who sold their 'brothers' to this foreign White man.

Now of course some of this is based on speculation as you suggested. But the speculation on my part is based on the actual historical account of an Africa that not only had some of these mechanisms in place for centuries, but was doomed to change drastically when Europeans first arrived to trade commodities only found in Africa. You can look at other countries to see that. I think that it takes way MORE creative imagination to believe that minus the European slave trade itself, we would have been one big happy family united together. NOTHING in African history supports that notion. My main point here is that despite the horrors of the trans-Atlantic slave trade, we fared much better than our brothers that stayed. That takes no speculation to see.

But getting back to the central point of your post, I do believe that what was said by the individuals you mentioned could have been communicated much better--period.

[MIB]

"... make sure you include the fact that A) slavery existed in Africa before the arrival of Europeans and B) Africans were willing participants in the selling of their own to Europeans."

You don't know when to stop digging a hole for yourself.

Slavery has existed since the beginning of human civilization. What made the Atlantic slave trade -- and particularly the U.S.'s practice of slavery -- unique is that the slaves were considered chattel, and thus dehumanized.
Slavery mostly existed as indebtured servitude in Africa, Europe (!), and other parts of the world before, during, and since the Atlantic slave trade.

"The comparison I made was between future African-Americans who could have stayed in Africa and endured what I described vs. slavery."

I recognized the stench of that fallacious rationalization for what it is. Ed posted quotes from Hagee and Buchanan to demonstrate they're both examples of race baiting rhetoric (at minimum). You saw fit to reply parroting Buchanan and professional jigaboo Jesse Lee Peterson's amoral, socially, scientifically, and historically incorrect garbage Black Americans actually benefitted from the slave trade and subsequent colonization of Africa. It's effin' ignorant... pure and simple! White folks didn't 'save' Black people from Africa... you idiot.

In fact, Buchanan's (and the commercial news media's) broadside against Wright was a red herring. I'm (somewhat) surprised how Buchanan can remain employed by a 'legit' media outlet with his track record of incendiary racial comments while Don Imus can get canned for making, essentially, a bad joke. But the real offense here is the attempt at silencing Black dissent by characterizing those who openly challenge gov't policy as 'unpatriotic'.

[Duane]

...unique is that the slaves were considered chattel, and thus dehumanized.

This also took place under slavery controled by Muslims where you will find that Muslims controlled much of the slave trade then as it does today (or what's left of it). In the meantime, check out their brand of "indebtured servitude" today--just as it has been practiced for thousands of years. But alas, all is relative to you when facts get in the way.

White folks didn't 'save' Black people from Africa... you idiot.

I know saying this actually makes it easier for you to make some sort of argument. I pointed out both the atrocities of slavery and the atrocities that were already taking place in Africa before the arrival of Europeans. You on the other hand like some others I know want to perpetuate the historical fallacy that Africa was a Black wonderland where everyone was treated equal is really the stench you are smelling here. I also pointed out that even African regions not directly impacted by slavery but colonialism still fared far worse in the long run when compared to Blacks of today. Slavery was awful, but I don't see too many American negroes lining up to go back to Africa--starting with you! There is a clear reason for that--and it is that reason you are unwilling to acknowledge lest some part of your 'blackness' is questioned. So were you "saved by Whites from Africa" as you mentioned? I'll let you figure that one out.

Finially, laying out the likes of Buchanan and Hagee while giving Wright a complete pass by refering to him as a simple 'dissent' is quite telling here. While you are more than willing to go through history to prove how these White men got it wrong, you show absolutely no willingness whatsoever to do the same fro Wright's baseless accusations. If that is not second class treatment based on race,....

[MIB]

"[Chattel slavery] also took place under slavery controlled by Muslims...".

No it didn't.

"I pointed out both the atrocities of slavery and the atrocities that were already taking place in Africa before the arrival of Europeans."

You misrepresented slavery as it was practiced in Africa at the time Westerners began trading with Africans.

"You... want to perpetuate the historical fallacy that Africa was a Black wonderland where everyone was treated equal..."

I made no such statement or suggestion.

"I also pointed out that even African regions not directly impacted by slavery but colonialism still fared far worse in the long run when compared to Blacks of today."

... another woefully fallacious argument...

BTW... what "African regions" are those left unaffected by the Atlantic slave trade and/or European colonialism?

"Slavery was awful, but I don't see too many American negroes lining up to go back to Africa--starting with you! There is a clear reason for that -- and it is that reason you are unwilling to acknowledge lest some part of your 'blackness' is questioned."

I'm not concerned by folks attempting to question my 'blackness', because I determine my identity for myself. However, I'll tell you straight up the reason why I haven't moved to Africa is because I've got just as much of a vested interest in America as I have in Africa -- maybe even moreso, because it was my ancestors that helped build this country.

Yours perhaps were rescued from savages in the jungle, like in a Tarzan movie. Not mine.

Hagee and Buchanan not only got things wrong, they're both a couple of racists whose water you so happily carry. But you're not equipped to discuss Wright on the merits because you're as spiritually lost as you are factually and intellectually bankrupt.

Go guard somebody's lawn.

[Duane]

No it didn't.
You misrepresented slavery as it was practiced in Africa at the time Westerners began trading with Africans.

There's that selective recollection of history again.

... another woefully fallacious argument...

BTW... what "African regions" are those left unaffected by the Atlantic slave trade and/or European colonialism?

Tell you what, once you get my exact quotes right, go use that crystal ball you have been using to find out the answer yourself.

Go guard somebody's lawn.

Ooooh, once again we arrive at the final stage of your usual arguments--the insult stage. Should I respond by saying something about your momma? Or has MIB got a wittle temper?

Yours perhaps were rescued from savages in the jungle, like in a Tarzan movie. Not mine.

(gasp!) Oh dear!!

But you're not equipped to discuss Wright on the merits because you're as spiritually lost as you are factually and intellectually bankrupt.

Whoa!!
Need I mention that you are REGULAR reader and commenter on my website--one who is according to you is "spiritually lost as you are factually and intellectually bankrupt"? Says a lot about YOUR intellect.

I thought the lawn jockey line was the cutest, but this one by far takes the cake. Both Obama and many of his supporters have dismissed Wright's comments due to the gross historical inaccuracies. While you have gone to the hilt to call out these two "racists" by pointing to history, you take no such care in proving that Wright was...right. That says a lot about how you prioritize the 'bablings' of "a couple of racists" over the "merits" of Wright.